#1 - Eric Gutglück & Benji Naesen - Who drives the hype?

00:00:00: Everybody can enjoy the sport their way they want, but my wife is better at cycling than me.

00:00:04: I need to put a clip on E-Bike... ...on MY bike if i wanna follow her!

00:00:08: On one of our training rides.

00:00:09: so.. ..I think we should be as inclusive as possible in this sport of cycling.

00:00:14: everybody should be able to enjoy it.

00:00:15: that way they won't then?

00:00:16: I think e-bike's part of that.

00:00:21: Hey everyone !

00:00:22: I'm Jose Binh A Cycling Journalist and Commentator.

00:00:25: Welcome To Shift Happens The Official Eurobike Podcast.

00:00:29: Every month I sit down with leaders, innovators and change makers from across the cycling world to explore the trends technologies.

00:00:36: And ideas shaping the future of our industry.

00:00:40: after all in our industry shift happens every day.

00:00:43: thanks for joining us.

00:00:44: let's get into today's episode.

00:00:48: this is a Shift Happens The Official Eurobike Podcast.

00:00:53: we're here at Eurobike Of Course In Frankfurt.

00:00:55: My name Is Jose Bain.

00:00:56: i'm A Pro Cycling Commentator by two guys, one's from Belgium but actually living in Oxford.

00:01:04: In the UK and the other man is from Germany.

00:01:08: Benji Nassan if I look at my paper... And of course i know you before..I know your a podcaster ,you're a youtuber But in one or two words how would you introduce yourself?

00:01:17: ..in the world of cycling?

00:01:19: I make videos about cycling on the internet Is How I portray it whether that's in podcast format Or in YouTube format especially.

00:01:26: That's My Vibe.

00:01:29: I see myself as a bit of the newcomer in The Last Five Years In This Sport.

00:01:33: And, i think that alot people in this sport have seen me do it too.

00:01:35: but... ...I can't complain!

00:01:37: I enjoy it.

00:01:37: Okay.

00:01:38: Eddie Goodgluck?

00:01:39: You're not a newcomer and you've been with Roadbike Magazine for quite some time now.

00:01:43: You write yourself, gravel road endurance, ride about cycling, podcast about cycling as well.. ..but how would you introduce yourselves?

00:01:52: to those who don't know

00:01:53: yet?!

00:01:54: I would say you already put it out.

00:01:58: Yeah, i'm a very dedicated cyclist cycling myself for um... I started in two thousand and eight let me do the math.

00:02:06: eighteen years now.

00:02:07: so uh almost half of my life yeah i was on the bike and that's the passion i um yeah i share it in my job as a cycling journalist.

00:02:18: So here we share the space in Messe, Frankfurt with lots of people who love bikes.

00:02:24: What is it about bikes and the cycling industry that you loved so much?

00:02:29: I think everybody working somehow on a cycling industry made his or her hobby as a job And that connects people quite a lot You always have like good connection even if don't know other people yet but... Yeah, that's quite unique I guess.

00:02:52: Do you also have the same passion for cycling Benji or is it just a job to you?

00:02:57: It definitely not just a Job!

00:02:58: It started as a hobby.

00:02:59: As A Child i played this silly video game That I fell in love with pro-cycling manager on The computer and accidentally fell into a career In the sport of cycling.

00:03:07: that way And...I wouldn't look back and say ah.. I would've done things differently.

00:03:13: I think the most beautiful thing about the sport For me Is the community around it because The people is what makes a sport of cycling great.

00:03:20: What makes me enjoy?

00:03:22: Being in cycling, it's being able to share that passion with everybody within

00:03:25: cycling.".

00:03:27: Of course we've all been walking around the Eurobike show now for couple hours.

00:03:30: you were here yesterday as well sharing content and you are also here Erick... ...what are things really stood out from you?

00:03:36: What surprises did you see or made you think wow!

00:03:40: That was something I never thought about before.

00:03:43: For me this One thing, it is a clip on motor onto your bike.

00:03:47: I'm not into e-bikes at all and i would nowadays never ride a bike with the motor but uh... ...I was almost intrigued to try it!

00:03:57: Is it like you wake up in the morning?

00:03:58: You think.. ..'i don't have the legs'.

00:04:00: And just putting a motor on my

00:04:01: bike?!

00:04:02: Yeah maybe like that.

00:04:02: If you don't need an e-bike ,you can take your road or gravel bike, clip it on and get some assistance

00:04:09: Are also very anti-e bikes because we have a lot of E-Bikes here at Eurobike.

00:04:12: I'm definitely not anti-e-bikes, and especially the specific brand Scarper you mentioned because they're a partner of mine.

00:04:18: But that to decide when it comes to e-biking in general... When an Instagrammula is posted about an E-bike product or something You often get the comment section being like cheaters!

00:04:28: Oh yeah?

00:04:29: You need to do with your raw power.

00:04:32: Everybody can enjoy this sport the way they want.

00:04:35: i don't care if few but my wife Is better at cycling than me.

00:04:38: I need to put a clip on e-bike, or my bike if i want to follow her all over training ride.

00:04:43: So we should be as inclusive as possible in this sport of cycling.

00:04:48: everybody should be able to enjoy the way they won then... ...I think E-Bike is part of that!

00:04:52: And what were the products you saw here at Eurobike?

00:04:54: That really made you look and it's like yeah.. ..i wanna have that!

00:04:59: Why?!

00:04:59: It's difficult because im not really the equipment head.... ...im NOT THE GUY THAT KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERY SINGLE ASPICT OF AQUIPMENT!

00:05:05: Everybody

00:05:05: wants something that YOU REALLY WANT TO HAVE!

00:05:08: Yeah, I won the windspace bike but i'm not sure.

00:05:11: I'm going to get that one.

00:05:14: But uh The i'm a road cycling fan.

00:05:17: I want the road bike as reality.

00:05:20: And there's some really beautiful ones at Eurobike That for sure.

00:05:23: and of course There is a lot of highlights here has many people he has a little shiny bikes.

00:05:28: Here are lots very high-tech new equipment that can make this sport accessible To everybody where they're also things that disappointed you today eric.

00:05:38: I wouldn't say disappoint.

00:05:42: Yeah, some type of change going around.

00:05:47: we see that Eurobike.

00:05:49: in the past it was a trade show with big emphasis on sportive cycling and nowadays you have more motors coming in or urban cycling coming into city bikes.

00:06:01: i think there's a change happening.

00:06:04: part Lots of people got into cycling in the last five, six seven years and they don't all have been road cyclists or gravel cyclist.

00:06:17: Some people just discovered a bike as new way for moving from city to school going through university work family duties whatever.

00:06:27: Of course we call this podcast shift happens.

00:06:30: there is lot happening At the moment.

00:06:35: mobility is such a big thing, especially with climate change and people want to get out of cars in planes.

00:06:40: And be on road freedom that you have individuality.

00:06:44: but things are happening.

00:06:46: shift also happen in the bike industry.

00:06:48: we can see here all around us at Eurobike.

00:06:50: You've been through trade shows for many years as an editor at Road Bike Magazine.

00:06:57: what's been biggest change over the year?

00:07:01: You mentioned shortly that there was a lot of focus on road racing, road cycling and it's more about general mobility at the moment.

00:07:07: But yeah other things have changed in the way that producers are now trying to reach their consumers?

00:07:17: I think that trade shows aren't so much addressing the consumer anymore.

00:07:24: It is like a business meeting different channels to get cycling content and to get news about new bikes, new tech, new development.

00:07:39: I think that is at least in my eyes the biggest change.

00:07:43: And has that way of producers or manufacturers reaching their markets?

00:07:50: Has it changed profoundly your opinion over the last years?

00:07:54: I would say so!

00:07:56: Benji you got into cycling part of the reason that brands start to discover different channels, too.

00:08:07: To promote their products and their stories?

00:08:09: I think to name The Elephant in the room.

00:08:12: social media is a major factor And Social Media has now a go-to place where Brands can reach their audience without needing them in person at an exhibition fair for example.

00:08:22: but i don't think it necessarily solves every aspect or conversation thats happening.

00:08:29: I do think there's still a place for an event like Eurobike, where people can try stuff in person.

00:08:36: But especially that networking aspect you pointed at earlier is much easier than doing so over a video call on Zoom or anything.

00:08:48: but social media has the major traction now when it comes to if a brand wants to post about a brand new cassette... make some cool video depending on which cycling focus it is, whether it's the X of road cycling.

00:09:06: Maybe you're pro cyclist promoting that instead of having a whole event here at the place.

00:09:11: but I'm going to ask one question quickly because i am actually curious... Is an event like this also super important when it comes to launches for actual traditional journalism?

00:09:23: Not really for launches I would say.

00:09:26: new products shown in the last years haven't been shown firsthand on trade shows or at trade shows.

00:09:34: I think brands start to implement their own launches, their own presentations and media camps and stuff.

00:09:44: The show like the Eurobike is more... Like you said meeting people in person normally would sit with a team's call.

00:09:53: It was the first time I saw a face belonging to the email address.

00:10:02: That's always quite nice, to connect on that personal level and not only via... Oh!

00:10:08: I hope this mail finds you

00:10:09: well.".

00:10:11: Of course everything is about getting the right mix these days with your mix of how-to-release consumers.

00:10:16: Benji?

00:10:16: You are somebody who really made a name for himself online.

00:10:21: How...?

00:10:23: How do you think that more traditional brands can use online media better to reach their consumers?

00:10:29: Well, they might only be focused on these traditional trade shows.

00:10:32: how could they increase or improve Their mix to reach the customers?

00:10:38: I Think it's all about authenticity These days and i think my overall motto That i think of when he comes to a question like that is Stop trying To Be Everywhere Start Being Where It Matters And If You Can Find Two Or Three Channels where you can find real engagement instead of just having people scrolling past the post here or there.

00:10:57: That engagement and that authenticity of the person, your work with are to be able to trust in.

00:11:11: certain.

00:11:19: Trust, of course is also something that really belongs to a traditional magazine like Road Bike Magazine.

00:11:24: That has changed over the years how you reach your readers because we all know that print is going down but what role does your bike play in Road Bike or traditional magazines?

00:11:46: I think you put it right, traditional print media is going down and... It's not a secret.

00:11:53: But at the same time we also see in our magazine that we have podcasts as well.

00:11:59: We do YouTube videos, we do our home page And we see that The audience growing there.

00:12:09: This something where Also, brands start to jump onto their train.

00:12:16: We see that the ask for advertisement in all products is shifting from printed magazines more into modern channels – it's quite clear!

00:12:29: But how do you keep the honesty of your magazine and podcast?

00:12:33: Benji has much more free role when saying what he thinks about things while you as a more traditional journalist.

00:12:39: How is your relationship with the brands and how can actually meeting them here help that relationship from offline to online, where are you working now?

00:12:48: I think honesty also for us quite important... ...I don't know if it's even more important than then for you but both very important because we Let's say there is a new tire around and we test it, or the worst tire ever.

00:13:10: Can you say that?

00:13:11: Or do you feel obliged because the brand has given these tires to us?

00:13:15: Are they still feeling the openness in your technical refus?

00:13:23: We

00:13:24: always try to put out effects.

00:13:27: To stay with an example of a tyre test... ...we go to a laboratory where we test rolling-resistance puncture resistance And if the values there are really, really bad then they are what they are.

00:13:40: If you cannot mount it on a rim and we had those problems... ...we always have like this approach of not saying that product is better than that but its strength here and weakness just there.

00:14:00: same for other products A listener, a reader can make the choice on their own.

00:14:08: What is best?

00:14:09: Throw judgment.

00:14:10: but of course here you're looking at the manufacturers in the eye.

00:14:14: if only have online contact it might be easier.

00:14:17: Benji to totally open and transparent.

00:14:21: Is seeing people still an obstacle?

00:14:27: I don't think necessarily.

00:14:30: The way i look Eric just jumped into is that, honest the aspect of things.

00:14:34: It's also... it's a complicated manner because when it comes to content creators and media for example if you're an independent journalist or a content creator That has let say five thousand followers in this sport of cycling You don't make a living off the sport.

00:14:49: at that point I think your more likely to Blurred aligns then sometimes be not completely honest Because If u are completely honest there you're burning bridges.

00:15:01: That's the reality of this situation, I'm at a point where i can say whatever I want because I am not dependent on brands and teams or riders in cycling but my audience And that is why my relationship with my audiences are most important.

00:15:18: What can your audience bring from being here for few days?

00:15:22: Sorry!

00:15:23: Can it really bring an online audience to Europe?

00:15:29: What do you really want to tell them what's happening here, that they need know?

00:15:35: I feel like a lot of people don't necessarily realise the way these fairs work because maybe five or ten years ago there was more audience integration into events.

00:15:46: For example tomorrow is the actual consumer day for Eurobike and it will become even more extreme in the future where its even more business-consumer focused having the people behind the brands say their own conversations through the channels of hypothetically a social media influencer.

00:16:10: Because it's not just this story that is important, but also who makes it?

00:16:14: For example if... It's weird comparison!

00:16:18: But if hypothetically controversial YouTuber like Logan Paul comes out and he promotes certain bike then I'm going to be buying another bike.

00:16:29: I think there's a similar vibe when it comes to brands and their founders, the team behind dad where trust is also important.

00:16:36: Do

00:16:37: you think Eric that the brands have been around for many times focus on these kind of trade shows?

00:16:43: That they have good feel about what's happening now with shift in how media are used?

00:16:52: Good question!

00:17:01: are lots of newer, how do you say possibilities and abilities to place your product with modern media channels.

00:17:14: And more than let's call it institutions whether its content creators influencer even the traditional media is shifting towards maybe being Being a bit more content-creative, let's put it that way.

00:17:36: I think those are challenges we're facing.

00:17:40: also and like you said Benji storytelling is very important in feeling connected to the people.

00:17:49: at least sometimes get feedback from our readers.

00:17:53: they feel connected with us and have trust in them and follow their stories.

00:18:02: It's a big responsibility as well, that confidence you have.

00:18:05: Because we all know in these days they can use it and lose it pretty soon too.

00:18:13: One of the big questions is do these shows like Eurobike still have place?

00:18:20: In the communication mix companies are using?

00:18:23: I'm

00:18:24: not sure to be honest if its... Like i said few minutes ago If it's so important to reach out to customers, I think that is more for finding new business deals.

00:18:41: Making connections and building a network.

00:18:46: I think there lies the real value of trade shows like Eurobike.

00:18:51: Of course we are telling stories here tomorrow.

00:18:53: Is Consumer Day at Eurobike?

00:18:56: But as we already concluded, the stories seem to happen somewhere else nowadays.

00:19:01: They seemed to happen online with content creators like you Benji, with journalists like yourself.

00:19:07: Do think that is going to get even more?

00:19:11: That we go into an online world and then kind of leave offline behind or do really need keep both in communication mix?

00:19:21: I think the storytelling is definitely going more and more online by today, but i do think we're gonna end up with a moment where Even in my generation.

00:19:29: I sometimes think oh i'm so online these days that

00:19:33: want to touch real things again?

00:19:34: I

00:19:34: wanna touch a tree!

00:19:35: Yeah...I wanna- I wanna Touch some grass..i wanna hug a tree ..that kind of vibe.

00:19:39: So uh

00:19:40: Maybe then you could show could shoot see doctor I Think that's the moment that somebody should get worried Benji.

00:19:46: yeah,

00:19:47: I just mean that We're so much on our phones each day which It's part of everything I do when it comes to my job.

00:19:53: But, i think there needs to be an outside element out side that and you hammered perfectly like the business-to-business aspect is where a fair like Eurobike tries because hypothetically let say Benjy Nelson is suddenly a bike manufacturer.

00:20:08: this is perfect place for brand.

00:20:11: look around see okay theres these OEM brands in hall eight with some asian brands.

00:20:20: Very good part for a future bicycle we could make.

00:20:22: I've heard of few stories from other brands that are actively scouting with the shopping list at a place like Eurobike to find future partners in manufacturing or stuff like that, and that's the reality of these places where yes you can find it online but the in-person interaction is invaluable there.

00:20:38: And actually also think about this consumer focused brand.

00:20:43: Where feel what product is important?

00:20:46: For example i think theres smaller start up here called cycle plate, which is one of those rocking things under your Zwift ride to make it... Your indoor bicycle.

00:20:57: To make a more realistic feeling like you're actually moving left and right while cycling?

00:21:01: People are scared when they see that on the internet because there's like.

00:21:04: Is It Scared To Be On There?

00:21:06: That was my initial reaction.

00:21:08: seeing online.

00:21:09: Having tried in person I'd love one.

00:21:11: You want

00:21:11: One Yeah.

00:21:13: So sometimes Because The funny thing Much of the communication that we now have in bike brands seems to be online, while cycling itself is so much a thing to get away from offline.

00:21:27: How does it work?

00:21:29: You're constantly on-line and you see all this new stuff.

00:21:31: but do you also want to stay away from it Erik?

00:21:35: I would say there's some place where both meet for example listening to podcasts.

00:21:41: sometimes when i'm mentioned being on the trainer or listening to podcast.

00:21:46: Yeah, and what you said Benji is quite interesting.

00:21:54: Of course there's this big shift towards being more on the phone... ...being more in the internet.

00:21:58: but I think with every development and every shift There's like a counter-shift

00:22:04: With every single AI over USC on Google?

00:22:07: I want to escape at The Internet.

00:22:09: That's why i wanted To get it!

00:22:12: With all of this AI development And getting all the information sometimes even particles via AI, I want to have a connection with some real person.

00:22:27: And that there's of course in an online world where brands seem to invest a lot in online communication?

00:22:35: You think true authenticity like realness can only be reached by really seeing the products and testing them out while Eurobike still has a very important place as well in the entire communication mix.

00:22:52: Yeah, seeing product and see people behind it... ...and seen the people who tested right about it promoted.

00:23:01: I think that's more trust than let us say some real person.

00:23:10: then some AI quick summary on Google.

00:23:15: That brings me to the role of a content creator and the role as cycling journalist, because we were talking about trust.

00:23:22: Who do you think that consumers nowadays trust more?

00:23:26: Because there seems to be a shift towards just believing everything a content creators says.

00:23:33: Benji Nasen says Swift is the best thing ever happened to me – We need to buy Zwift!

00:23:40: Of course she would say that I know what you're doing.

00:23:43: That comes with a lot of influence and responsibility.

00:23:48: But how do you see your role as creator?

00:23:50: Do feel like, You also need to have some sort of journalist baseline for it?

00:23:56: Yes!

00:23:57: And I think that's something that has evolved throughout my years As a content creator because... ...I started this as kid.

00:24:02: To be honest In twenty fifteen i was underaged.

00:24:07: I wasn't making videos at the hobby or money.

00:24:09: It is from twenty twenty one, twenty two.

00:24:11: So after six seven years of making that content, I finally could switch over and do it full-time financially.

00:24:19: So... It was a hobby made into reality.

00:24:22: but the more you then start doing this.. The more mistakes also make!

00:24:26: And the more people realise they shouldn't have done that differently.

00:24:39: They're all of.

00:24:44: a content creator is not just making content.

00:24:46: It's also a duty to your community.

00:24:48: Maybe it's a weird way of saying it Especially once you have a significant audience because I'm not just the guy-making videos.

00:24:55: if my promoter product, I influence their marketing decisions.

00:24:58: So that's why I'm very fanatical on the fact that Promotions need to be clear to the audience that they are promotions.

00:25:05: Um...I am very Very opinionated On The reality that If i'm a content created with large audiences and I have a controversial opinion, then i need to think to myself.

00:25:19: Am i really sure about this?

00:25:21: Well first of all am i right about?

00:25:22: it is also an important question because sometimes im very stupid at this that i post on twitter but um.. that to decide its... Is This An Opinion That Negatively Would Effect The Public If I Release It Potentially?

00:25:37: But On the Other Hand That Needs To Be Balanced With Your Honesty And Authenticity Because People Want That Brutal Honest Take Aswell.

00:25:44: So you need to find the line there, but reality is also.

00:25:47: we're talking about journalists versus content creators.

00:25:50: You spoke on my podcast more than I have so The lines are so blurred these days that My friends and family go to people and say odd as Benji's a cycling journalist.

00:26:03: i've never called myself that Legally in countries?

00:26:05: I'm a journalist.

00:26:07: I don't know what to call myself.

00:26:08: I'll call myself a content creator

00:26:10: But your probably here on a press pass.

00:26:13: Yes, but I actually think that press and media passes are often considered to only be journalists while I Think content creators on our past or part of the media without necessarily needing To Be a journalist.

00:26:26: But i am starting to consider myself a journalist The more.

00:26:28: I talk i think over the years yeah?

00:26:29: I think you just answered your own question here That how did the lines have become rather blurry between Eric who we would call A traditional journalist And You coming from the outside.

00:26:40: How do Making money now in content creation?

00:26:45: that started as a passion, you start it in cycling journalism.

00:26:47: As a passion.

00:26:48: at certain point also my job is to cycle.

00:26:51: incommitator becomes the job.

00:26:53: how do you keep it fun Eric?

00:26:55: To talk about bikes when he also know that pays the mortgage.

00:27:00: My wife always says and I had there's a tiny Velodrome and there are cyclists riding around twenty four seven And i think that puts quite good.

00:27:10: Like you said, for me it's not really a job.

00:27:13: Of course there are situations.

00:27:14: where is the job?

00:27:15: because we have meetings and deadlines... ...and then put something out but everything.

00:27:22: I can at least say to myself that everything i do in our magazine its hard.. ..because im interested with all of my work and sometimes all the excel sheets.... ....I always so much interest into them And that's why this passion keeps running.

00:27:45: You also feel the same kind of passion for bikes here with the exhibitors on Eurobike?

00:27:50: Or do you think it is much more a business transaction, here?

00:27:56: For me both because I have spoken to brands as potential partners in future and ironically few topics we brought up earlier like connection between real life vs social media has come out where not just wanting that social media but also want to hybrid situation, going out with communities on a bike ride.

00:28:17: On their bicycles for example and trying put it all together in like a bundle of real life online.

00:28:23: But... To go back to our question I forgot what the question was.

00:28:26: to be honest If you

00:28:27: experience this same kind of passion for bikes here where people are from all over the world

00:28:33: Yes, and I think it's partially because i'm not the bicycle expert.

00:28:36: maybe bicycle experts super hyped as well obviously but for me It's even more cuz i'm like ooh.

00:28:41: I don't Even know how this works.

00:28:43: let me ask this person.

00:28:44: so Every stand has something new to learn To Me which?

00:28:47: I very much enjoy Because i'm so focused on The pro cycling aspect And the road cycling aspect that i'm Not an e-bike expert.

00:28:53: I Don't Know Howdy The Brands That I interact with Which are Like the mainstream Cycling Brands in Europe America and so forth how they then work with the OEM manufacturers behind-the-scenes.

00:29:06: That's a whole new world that opened up to me in the last couple of days, and it is extremely fascinating.

00:29:10: but yeah I think passion is definitely here.

00:29:12: A lot people have been enjoying it And uh... Yeah?

00:29:16: I can't complain.

00:29:17: Of course we see very strong focus on Asia nowadays.

00:29:20: Eric Is also something you find interesting finding all these new brands and developments that seem to go faster over an Asia than they are going there all the innovations that we see, especially outside of the road cycling pro-cycling community.

00:29:35: The mobility aspect?

00:29:36: I

00:29:37: think it's coming more and more to Europe or Western world in general if you could call it so.

00:29:47: All those years traditional brands have been moving their production over Asia And now there is knowledge.

00:30:00: Take a look around when you're on your Sunday, right?

00:30:03: You see more and more Chinese brands bikes parts clothing.

00:30:09: Yeah just Just On The Road.

00:30:13: Do you think that audiences are still looking in the same places for information?

00:30:19: or has That also changed from what you do as A traditional magazine like For example all the new products that come From Asia All the New Innovations That Come And Are Presented Here?

00:30:30: Do you think that people still go to your Robyte Magazine, or podcast to find information?

00:30:35: Or they blindly trust content creators like Benji.

00:30:40: You can't see the look on his face right now but it's priceless!

00:30:45: I would

00:30:47: say there is still come-to us... ...but we see that it depends upon a person and their customer Maybe on their age, that's the main factor where they try to find information.

00:31:05: The older ones still are more used to the magazine.

00:31:09: The younger ones grew up with social media and go on our Instagram page or website.

00:31:15: They listen to our podcast.

00:31:18: I think there is a biggest shift That young people tend to read less in printed magazines

00:31:26: And

00:31:28: see and listen.

00:31:30: It has that power, the influence of reaching your audience really shifted from an institution like Road Bike Magazine or like your sport to individuals.

00:31:41: Like individual content creators do you think they get too much power in one person?

00:31:49: Watch

00:31:50: out!

00:31:51: Benji Do You Think That You Have Too Much Influence On The Way People Look At What They Purchase Nowadays.

00:31:58: I think

00:31:58: reality is Influencers and congregators should be aware of the influence that they have, and should act accordingly.

00:32:06: I've got a major principle where i don't do reviews And the reason why I don't review is because... ...I get lots emails like this brand wants you to test their new turbo trainer or whatever and make video out it.. ..and want to pay your x amount for doing so?

00:32:19: I will never do paid review.

00:32:21: That's reality!

00:32:29: leave those opportunities behind while a smaller creator might have to burn their principles, too.

00:32:34: To make a living out of it which I can't actually blame them for that.

00:32:37: but once i'm at this point... ...I would feel dishonest in my audience if start doing stuff like that.

00:32:42: But It's- I think goes beyond that and.. ..to go back to the previous question Like.... I think there is also stereotype against- I am

00:32:49: just trying get.

00:32:51: you are the biggest rivals now with traditional and new media.

00:32:55: Yeah You probably not going there.

00:32:56: Yes we are.

00:32:57: Yes, for sure.

00:32:57: It's

00:32:58: going to be some fighting.

00:32:58: behind the stage is

00:33:00: definitely people on both sides that look bad against each other?

00:33:03: I think there are people in traditional media who don't like new kids on the block or try and push down every traditional media platform out there but... ...I actually think they shouldn't have a rivalry because they can use eachother.

00:33:18: Like i partner with a Belgian newspaper every now & then trying make content together about the sport of cycling Because it's another audience which moderns is very young in the sport of cycling.

00:33:28: I'm talking my biggest demographic, it's twenty five to thirty-five while when he comes through The traditional media newspapers and Belgium for example they'll have a slightly older generation reading the media there.

00:33:41: That's an additional region Of people that are passionate about this sport that i want to reach.

00:33:48: They wanna share their passion with them.

00:33:50: On the opposite side, they want to reach my younger audience as well so-to say.

00:33:54: They're

00:33:54: profiting off your experience

00:33:57: too?

00:33:57: It's a two way street!

00:33:58: Of course you help each other in this mix.

00:34:03: People are fighting one another while collaborating would be more valuable.

00:34:07: But don't think I'm just trying to get out of here but do not think that new people coming online and getting such big portion attention Away from you like but what do you even know about cycling Benji?

00:34:23: I've.

00:34:23: we have been doing this for fifty years.

00:34:25: Go away.

00:34:27: I don't have those feelings But What I sometimes don't like is when you see videos or content by an influencer, okay This video is paid by XYZ.

00:34:41: And then

00:34:42: they tell me something Oh, I feel that this bike has five watts faster and it at forty-five kph.

00:34:50: And then I know, yeah that's exactly what in the press release they sent us last week.

00:34:54: so you're just reading the press released and it is not really your experience.

00:35:00: You are telling this to people because they gave you an X amount of money.

00:35:02: But i would like believe that people see through those kind things.

00:35:06: Do you think?

00:35:07: That people can judge for themselves What´s real and whats not real online anymore when it comes either quote-unquote traditional journalism and influences.

00:35:18: Do you think that people see the difference nowadays?

00:35:21: I think it's getting lost a bit, um...I think some people really say yeah but this influencer told me uh.. That

00:35:29: your bike is five times faster.

00:35:30: Yeah!

00:35:31: Your bike was five time faster.

00:35:32: And suddenly i look at our data.

00:35:35: we tested.

00:35:39: no You lied.

00:35:41: I feel like alot of these conversations come back to trust The reality is.

00:35:47: it really depends on the content creator and what their personal principles are.

00:35:52: Because yes, there are very much rotten apples in the world of influences etc.

00:35:57: I could name a billion of them thinking about right now

00:35:59: Don't do that?

00:36:00: No Well they're not encyclings so i don't care.

00:36:02: but On traditional media..I can also think certain websites where ive liked ads to be more disclosed.

00:36:09: Im fanatic on disclosure of ads To point out movies which have Brand visibility, for example if Iron Man shows up in a Jaguar I want to have that disclosed at the start of or end of movie That there was an ad built into that movie.

00:36:26: In the same way content creators should be forced legally To disclose that There's ads in there and also traditional media should do this.

00:36:35: And i think those rules should count For anyone regardless whether it is journalist or content creator.

00:36:40: How do you work with, of course Brands also give you content for the magazine?

00:36:44: Are you always transparent about this?

00:36:46: is content that's been given to us?

00:36:48: or how does it work with your podcast.

00:36:51: For example if a brand wants to be mentioned

00:36:54: If you want the short answer It's yes.

00:36:57: We always try to be very Opened about it.

00:37:02: if we have like an advertisement in the magazine I think then its clear Oh This Is An Advertisement About some new bikes Some New Tire Or Some New Helmet.

00:37:11: Sometimes the lines are a bit more blurry, for example in the podcast.

00:37:16: But we always write it down to show notes or mention at the beginning of the podcast.

00:37:21: this episode

00:37:24: is

00:37:25: supported by X, Y and Z from that company.

00:37:31: And today we talk about let's say aerodynamics.

00:37:36: We've talked a lot about the online world.

00:37:50: Um, how do you

00:38:08: say work ethos?

00:38:10: Is it an English word?

00:38:11: okay great.

00:38:13: So of course we sometimes um We are not even.

00:38:17: sometimes we underlie some rules of press and at the same time we Of course we follow influencers and content creators And sometimes you see oh this type of content is working really well.

00:38:32: are there some elements we can adapt to and improve our own products?

00:38:37: or magazine, podcast videos whatever.

00:38:40: And I think this will keep on going in the next at least five years.

00:38:44: What is the kind of content that you feel works best than what you want to keep improving?

00:38:51: I

00:38:51: think hypothetically if i was a newer creator at the moment short form it's way too.

00:38:56: go to reach.

00:38:58: for those who aren't really familiar with instagram

00:39:00: reels and tiktok But

00:39:02: the attention should span of a minute and half.

00:39:04: Yeah, on the phone basically that you can doom scroll on your TikTok app or Instagram meals.

00:39:09: That's the way to go for a lot of brands these days but I think where storytelling maybe gets lost because there is differentiating factors.

00:39:16: So if we make long-form YouTube videos so let say twenty five minutes video documentary about an athlete winning London Marathon with Yorn Nutrition Fantastic story It will reach less people.

00:39:32: The storytelling will convert them into very engaged fans of your product, so to say is my thought process there.

00:39:41: So

00:39:42: the quantity it would be longer than short form but that quality off you're engagement with a consumer?

00:39:48: Would we better then the short-form?

00:39:49: yeah and I think a perfect example.

00:39:51: as for examples with if hypothetically I post a picture on Instagram promoting an indoor trainer Sure, that picture will be seen perhaps by more people and in so doing More people get to know the product.

00:40:07: but if I make a twenty five minute video how i transferred My my fitness and lost fifteen kilos over the span of year through intercycling with their products That storytelling we'll hit home And we'll convert to better sales than uh then post on instagram.

00:40:22: So then we come to the question like who?

00:40:24: Will shape the future of Cycling off cycling media.

00:40:29: Of what happens here Who is going to be the most prominent voice?

00:40:32: The traditional schooled journalist or the new kid on the block.

00:40:37: By ten years from now, Benji will like a veteran in content creation but there'll be new kids and girls as well who's gonna win this battle.

00:40:50: I think both of them are still extremely relevant.

00:41:01: It's easier for an individual to find trust from an audience than a brand and especially traditional journalism these days.

00:41:11: I think cycling is big enough that there's place for the two of those parties, And i just hope that cycling is Just growing in that they will be more money in cycling That both parties can make enough money out of it so people working in content creation or in journalism and afford their apartment.

00:41:34: But if somebody here on Eurobike comes to you, it's like I got X amount of money to spend?

00:41:39: Where should i spend it to get the best conversion?

00:41:42: Should I stay here in Eurobike?

00:41:43: Should i get cool kids like Benji Nassan onboard show how they invest in traditional media?

00:41:51: is there a unit...I don't think There Is One Answer To It!

00:41:53: The conclusion for this podcast that we have always has to be mixed.

00:41:57: You Have To Be Here to really see people who are going sell your products or use your product But you also have to be online for those people who are not here.

00:42:05: I think it's a bit of both, that you should just divide your money accordingly?

00:42:10: Yes but i think the media platforms like for example Road by Magazine with a podcast is more an individualistic focus because its people on a podcast That People Trust versus An article in newspaper written by journalists.

00:42:28: If I opened up my Sunday Gazette In West Flanders Fifteen years ago and I checked an article.

00:42:35: I didn't know who wrote that article.

00:42:36: No, you had to have a face with it.

00:42:39: The institutions were what was trusted then?

00:42:41: Yeah like its more individualistic these days.

00:42:43: But i think the approach is just that traditional media will go the individualist way in which they are already doing And we'll hammer down home even more

00:42:52: That also traditional journalists become more personalities Than just representing Just being anonymous people writing for a brand.

00:42:59: What am saying is Eric as social media influencer?

00:43:01: now

00:43:03: Oh, welcome to the club.

00:43:05: You're now also a brand Eric.

00:43:06: Welcome.

00:43:07: but talking about being a brand there was one funny moment.

00:43:11: I Was at a gravel event?

00:43:13: Um i arrived in my private car had no road bike clothing At all.

00:43:17: you

00:43:17: got second know

00:43:19: And it's not a race and I was talking To My colleague.

00:43:23: we both weren't branded as road bike by any means and suddenly two people next to us were like oh you're The guys from the road bike podcast right just by our voices.

00:43:33: And that was really

00:43:34: strange

00:43:35: and weird, I

00:43:44: think the conclusion of everything we talked about is places like this still have a place in the past but also don't differ all that much anymore in modern journalism, in modern content creation.

00:44:07: What is the conclusion you draw from being here?

00:44:10: Will he be back next year and September as

00:44:11: well?".

00:44:13: Yes of course because like I said at the beginning it's about getting connected to people working on a cycling industry meeting them And always after a trade show like this i walk home with five ideas for good articles, good stories, good podcasts.

00:44:31: It's

00:44:32: already the same this year.

00:44:33: So yeah, looking forward to twenty-twenty seven time will spend.

00:44:37: what did you learn on your bike here Benji?

00:44:39: that we're going To listen too in Your podcast or see On your social media?

00:44:43: I think um

00:44:44: That bike that You wanted probably

00:44:46: Yeah for sure but i Think it also.

00:44:48: i've said at The start and i'll say At the end For me the most important thing about Eurobike is the people i want to And thats with anything.

00:44:54: really even if i go to a cycling race i'm there for cycling Sure But im mostly There because i Want to share that passion With People around it And that community love, to say it in a cringe way is what fuels my love for the sport.

00:45:09: Otherwise I probably would do something else.

00:45:11: And whether we're talking fifty years ago or in the future The love of the bike will still be What unites us all?

00:45:19: Hope so!

00:45:20: Hope i'm still alive in fifty years!

00:45:22: Once a cyclist always a cyclists

00:45:24: Keep riding your bike.

00:45:25: It's very good for longevity.

00:45:26: Thank you very much Benji Nasse and Eric Goodgluck Thanks.